Against Marillion and Junior and Free Pussy Riot

So I watched the free pussy riot documentay yesterday and now i'm all fired up and i saw marillion spewing his religious hatred all over the web and i thought NO MORE i'ts time to call a spade a spade and let's remove some of these illusions and misconceptions we all seem to have about one another, he's so busy pointing his finger at the sawdust in his brother's eye that he has totally neglected removing the huge fucking log that is obviously in his, oh how very sad that one who professes to follow the way is actually one of the biggest perverters and distorters of teh way , this is this sad gentleman here

Junior says:muhammad laid down severe restrictions on such free speech, assassinating many who insulted him. In their deplorable qur’an, he promises death and eternal damnation if anyone deviates in words and action from allah (a pagan idol moon god chosen by mohammed to be the god of islam AND mohammed invented islam) and his messenger. In their disturbing hadith, he kills dissenters and insulters. Later legal rulings, rooted in their troubled qur’an and hadith, follow his lead and decree that hard, hitting speech must be stifled. The dissenters must die if they cross the line. Furthermore muslims are told to emulate the example of mohammed. Finally....“When I examine the qur’an, the hadiths, and the islamic books under my microscope, I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible-impossible for any human being to read the biography of muhammad and believe it and yet emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.” Dr. Wafa Sultan Psychiatrist, Author and Ex-muslim

I said:
Against Marillion, if you want to start talking about paganism and it's relationship to the different Abrahamic monotheisms, Judaism Christianity and Islam, why don't you check out some of the links I have provided you and you will see that Judaism started as a pagan religion that was eventually changed into orthodox or rabbinic Judaism.  You have obviously studied the pagan roots of Islam to your credit, but have you missed the pagan roots of both Judaism and Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_gods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic_religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_Neopaganism

If you look at this list, you will see the god El, which is a name used for your God in the Old Testament.  So look those up and study those and you will better understand the 'so called pagan' roots of beliefs and practices we now call Judaism.

Let's talk about Christianity now.  I've included some links you may want to look at as well so you can understand the intricate relationship between Christianity and paganism, especially when you compare early christian belief and practice against the greco-roman mystery religions of dionysius and even earlier egyptian mystery religions of osiris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Babylons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion

Here's an example that concerns Christmas

'Many modern Christmas customs have been directly influenced by such pagan festivals, including gift-giving and merrymaking from the Roman Saturnalia, greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year, and Yule logs and various foods from Germanic feasts.[119]'

why don't you also learn about sol invictus, the god whose birthday we celebrate every december 25th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

so before you go accussing  (the original meaning of the devil in the book of job which is what your satanic attitude towards muslims represent) Muslims of being a bunch of pagan idolotars, why don't you look up the roots of your own religion of hatred that you i'm sure now call christianity now and it's pagan roots.

ALL RELIGIONS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD HAVE SO CALLED PAGAN ROOTS, the distinction between pagan and orthodoxy is a false scholarly one and used by haters in religions the world over to persecute and justify their hatred of people who are different from themselves.  This is a truly satanic attitude masked the guise of righteousness, so instead of going after people, why don't you open your heart to understanding what the real problems in that part of the world are and offer solutions in order to solve the, instead of drawing on old and false energies of hatred and division, masked the in the guise of religious orthodoxy.

my fellow light worker william says :
One never hears or reads of Muslims being charged with the same crime when they diparage, defame and decry Christianity and Judaism so in Egypt "blaspheme" and the laws against the same only apply to non-Muslims as a coercive forced applied to them in an attempt to have them convert to Islam, which, according to the teachings in the Qur'an is "haram" or forbidden as there can be no coercion in regards to religion.
Bearing false witness against another is also taught by Islam to be one of the worst crimes a Muslim can commit to such a point that one is advised to be honest even if the honesty is against one's own self.
Then there is the question of judging others, which Muslims are taught only Allah, Subhanna wa Ta'ala, has both the necessary knowledge and the right to do.
Truth be told, when viewed with such in mind, there are no Islamic countries and any that would impose a "blaspheme" law such as Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, etc. are distorting the teachings of Islam which is again, strictly forbidden in the Qur'an.
Seen for that which it is, Islam is simply another failed religion who professed adherents cherry pick, twist and corrupt the faith for their own gains which proves they obviously do not believe what they profess because they do not practice it.

just found this as well, this is very sad indeed, we need to get these terrorists and marillion in a room together and hjust have all the crazies from all the religions kill each other, because they are the ones that ruin it for everybody

The beginning of the New Year saw only an increase in the oppression of Christians under Islam, from Nigeria, where an all-out jihad has been declared in an effort to eradicate the Muslim north of all Christians, to Europe, where Muslim converts to Christianity are still hounded and attacked as apostates. According to the Chairman of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, “The flight of Christians out of the region is unprecedented and it’s increasing year by year”; in our life time alone, he predicts “Christians might disappear altogether from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Egypt.”

Logan responded:

Another time waster from M.  Thank you J.  Lol!

 Thus separation of Church and state is a good thing. 

People shouldn't judge others for their religion. 

God will judge us when we die. 

Or we're just dust anyways, if you're an atheist.

 My wife's microbiology professor is Hindu Indian, believes in evolution, slams Christianity, and Americans in class.

I also found out he doesn't drink alcohol cause he sees what it does to your live and put pictures of drunk frat boys on the over head.  Maybe we should pull a Jihad on him!

I responded to Logan:

More time wasting.  

You know, I see a lot of similarities between different groups of people.  for instance, you talk about separation of church and state, but there has really not been very much of that in the Muslim world. it has always been the traditional Islamic caliphate ruling quite literally unbroken from the time of Muhammad in 600 AD really up until the breakup of the ottomon empire during WWI in 1914-1917.  1300 years of no separation between church and state really until this last century.  

what has replaced this caliphate has been authoritarian rulers who oppressed their people and who were being backed by either the USA government or the USSR after WWII ended in 1945 because our entire foreign policy and theirs from the end of WWII until the fall of the Berlin Wall & the USSR in the early 90's was geared toward combating the spread of global communism or global capitalism and winning the cold war against Stalin's descendents like kruschev or the damn global capitalists in america like kennedy.  so neither super power cared what the rulers of the middle east did to their people's as long as they were on right side during the cold war, the history of the shah in iran from 1945 through the islamic iranian revolution in 1979 is a damn case study in USA government turning a blind eye to human rights abuses by the shah in iran in order to win the cold war.  

look at what is happening in syria now, a damn cold war shadow proxy war between usa and western europe on one side and russia and china on the other side, playing out as shia (hezbollah are their radical militants) and alowite muslim minorities backed by Iran on the side of the communists and sunni (al queda are their radical militants) muslim majorities backed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar backed by USA on the side of the capitalists.  as if the tensions between the capitalists and the communists didn't need more flame, now the centuries old religious war over whether Ali should have been the 1st caliph after the death of Muhammad (what shia's belive) or whether abu bakr who was the 1st caliph is legitimate (what sunni's believe) has added an extra dimension to this already polarizing conflict.  it's been 1300 friekin years, and these people are still killing each other over pretty much who should have been the first pope.  obviously it's more complicated than that, but its' so easy to draw on old and negative energies like this especially during times of conflict that modern issues often reflect ancient hatreds and biases.  

But with all this said, the Muslim world is going through what we all went through, meaning europeons and their descendents, 500 years ago when martin Luther said fuck you to the catholic church, which was the christian caliphate of Europe at the time, and actually was protected and survived the christian caliphates attempts to kill him and his treasonous heresy.  it was a turning point in world history because it was the first time that somebody had actually challenged the governmental authority of the catholic caliphate of the vatican and wasn't killed or burned at the stake for it. check out the knights templar and the cathars to see how previous attempts at rebellion against mother catholic caliphate turned out for those groups and you'll better understand what I mean.

But even with this, Europe went through 150 years of religious and governmental turmoil with protestants killing catholics and kings rebelling against the pope and vice versa for 150 years until the treaty of westphalia in 1648.  let me repeat that, religious conflict between protestants and catholics was so constant in europe during this time that the wars from this period are called the 30 years war (1618-1648) in the holy roman empire and the 80 years war (1568-1648) between spain and the dutch. 110 years of religious and governmental war all between protestants and catholics before finally europe got their shit together and decided let's stop killing each other and try to live in peace.

100 years later europeons and colonialists read john locke's philosophy and the american and french revolutions gave birth the to west's cherised idea of the separation of church and state that we value and that logan has pointed out is such a good thing. thank you logan ala thomas jefferson ala john locke.  but my point is that although we are at this point in our history and development over here in the west, in the muslim world and especially the middle east arab part of the muslim world, they are somewhere between just going through all of these religious wars that we went through with the 80 years war etc. and just starting to give their own voice to Locke's values of the french revolution that our founding fathers fought and died for over 200 years ago. 

 it looks like there are just some historical processes that are universal (can you tell i've read hegel and marx) that all cultures and religions and governments and ethnicities of people have to go through them regardless.  it looks like one of these universals may be the disentangling of religious power from governmental power, which has been the prototype for all civilizations for thousands of years ever since the chief elder of the tribe was at the same time oldest person and president and shaman and priest and prophet and healer and judge of the tribe all rolled into one.  it's difficult to disentagle thousands of years of the way things used to be, it's embedded in our dna and human psychology to some extent i think.  so although we are already 200 years out from all of these disentanglements, the muslim world is right in the middle of it and that is what this arab spring and these revolutions in the muslim world and the war in syria right now are all about.  they are trying to give birth to the values of the modern age, which are the values of the french and american revolutions, but are being bogged down by their own religious tensions that europe fought wars for decades over between vatican catholics and luther's protestants.

to add even more complications to this picture, the majority of the muslim world is deeply conservative and believes their own false mythology about the golden age of islam in the time of muhammad and the caliphate and saladin the great muslim medieval conquerer who reconquered the holy land for islam.  their history is so damn romanticized and they believe so much in the myth of the lost golden age and the decline of the modern age, which is the basis of all conservative ideology, (just as the decline of past ages and the myth of future progress towards utopia is the basis of all progressive or liberal ideology, so pretty much conservatives believe the past was golden and the future is shitty, whereas progressives believe the past was shitty and the future is golden, but both are false myths), that then is why you see this desire in the muslim world to return to the caliphate and the times of past glories and why it seems that they are so far behind the rest of the modern europeon american world when it comes to certain things like educating young girls and religious tolerance and pluralism.

so i hear a lot of people say that oh those people have been killing each other for centuries they are not going to stop now oh it's just in their nature to be killers islam is a death religion yadda yadda yadda all this ignorant bullshit really, but in reality, up until about 1650, the same could be said about us, about europeon christians who had a history of conflict amongst themselves that it took decades to conflict and devastation to realize we need to find a better way. look at when john locked lived, from 1632-1704, he grew up in the shadow of all this inter christian governmental conflict and that's why he wrote the things that he did and gave birth to the modern age through american and french revolutions.  

so i guess the muslim world needs some sort of john locke figure and some militants (like our founding fathers were and Robespierre and jacobins were in France, I bet you never thought about george washington as a militant lockean liberalist!, but that's what he was folks), they need these people in order to put their islamic twist on locke's philosophy so that they can give birth to their version of the modern world, with some sort of separation between church and state that we here in the west take for granted because we forget all the blood and lives that were lost over in europe on the way to getting where we are today.  so that's why I plead for understanding and positive solutions when it comes to stuff like this, because when I see them over there going through all of this conflict and turmoil, I see a younger version of ourselves who went through the same things, only a few hundred years earlier.  

if you need me to issue a fatwa on your wife's microbiology professor logan, i can't do it, but i may know an iman that could help you.  he shouldn't slam america or christians, if he has issues, he shouldn't share them with his students certainly not in microbiology , and if his criticisms are valid, he should clothe them in positive language so that he could really engage others in productive dialogue so reasonable solutions and agreements could be found and made.  like i said before, you have to keep an eye out for haters no matter what religious mask they hide themselves in.

theirs really only two religions in existence, the religion of light and understanding and goodness and positivity and love, whether you call it christian or jew or buddhist or muslim or whatever you falsely label it as, and the religion of darkness and ignorance and evilness and negativity and hate, again regardless of how one self-identifies themselves. there are people and scripture and history in all the world's religions which reflect both of these tendencies, the light and the dark, baldassare cossa was a friekin dick and he became the damn pope, the head of all christendom for god's sake, so you just have to be on watch for what a person really is, despite what they advertise themselves to be. 

 master jedi zarathustra is now done with his lecture for the class this evening.  remember to read those wikipedia links I sent out and come to class tomorrow with any questions you have over the readings. no homework questions are due but i want your paper topics in by next week.  email me if you need some ideas i've got tons of stuff i'd love to have you teach me about with your research paper.  remember i prefer ala over mla style as well and you will be marked off a half a letter grade if I have to read endnotes instead of footnotes.  have a good night and i'll see you all in class tomorrow.  

shalom!