Salvation of Non-Catholics by A. Catholic

This is perhaps one of the most contentious points concerning the Catholic Church. Though I am no theologian I would like to try and clarify a few points which were raised at Jan's house and which I did not give a sufficient answer. The Church has always taught that "Outside the Church there is no salvation" which means precisely that the salvation of souls can only come through the Catholic Church being that it was founded by Christ who is Divine. (Yes you may disagree on that point but I am only explaining what the Church teaches) The question remains and this is the point which is rather difficult to explain, what type of connection with the Church do non-Catholics have to have? For another question can be raised...what of those individuals who are honestly searching for the Truth (only God can judge if a person is honestly searching and that they are of goodwill), who seek to do good and avoid evil as best as they can (I would once again bring up the natural law), and who, if they were convinced of the claims of the Catholic Church, would readily accept her teachings and become baptized if they were not already baptized validly?

We know God is merciful and He absolutely will not condemn anyone to Hell if they truly did not know better and were invincibly ignorant. But that is the key in that they have to be truly invincibly ignorant. These individuals are somehow united to the Catholic Church although they are not physically members of this Church. This is a profound mystery! However it is clear that the Catholic Church is the sole means for salvation and if it was not then there has been no point for the Church's existence. The Church exists essentially for the glory of God and the salvation of souls and as I said that is why the Church throughout the beginning 2,000 years ago stressed (as I mentioned) missionary work. The Church through Her sacraments, which gives sanctifying grace, brings men and women towards Christ which brings up another point. The person that is saved must have sanctifying grace in their soul which gives them the capacity to merit Heaven and be in union with God through the Beatific Vision. They must have that Charity in their souls enabling them to love God. Once again this is why the Church's sacraments are so important particularly the sacrament of Penance whereby the soul can be washed away of their sins they have had the misfortune of falling into mortal sin. The soul in mortal sin (a grievous fault) does not love God for it has sought a creature to fulfill its end but the soul in the state of grace is in union with Him. Other religions are incapable of cleansing the soul from mortal sin.

So in brief the Church teaches unequivocally that Outside the Church there is no Salvation but this does not mean that a person who is not physically a member of this Church will be damned, although it will be more difficult because of the lack of sanctifying elements in their religion. Hmm... What about the question of agnostics and atheists? I am not quite sure but I think a person in the above scenario must at least believe in a God for is not one God knowable (not in the absolute sense) through the use of one's reason? In ending yet I am sure I have left some or probably many questions unanswered but all I can say is that God desires the salvation of all, but God will not force anyone to believe if they do not want to as He has given us the gift of free will. Ultimately the soul that does not merit Heaven has chosen to forfeit Heaven. I know I am assuming that Heaven and Hell exist. You know this is an even more complex issue if someone denies that there is an afterlife where someone is rewarded or punished because of their actions here on earth. It gets frustrating for me because it means that more and more has to be explained but that is why we have reason and for me that is why the Catholic Church is so deep for she has 2,000 years of tackling some of these questions which many other religions in my opinion leave unanswered or at least have not tried to understand in depth.

Let me leave you with a few quotes to ponder on:

From The Catholic Church and Salvation by Monsignor Fenton p.12 which reiterates Church teaching in that:
"At the moment of death a man must be in some way "within" the Catholic Church (either as a member or as one who desires and prays to enter it) if he is to attain to eternal salvation"

This will be from Singulari Quadam by Pope Pius IX (1854) and it is rather lengthy [also quoted in the book by Msgr. Fenton p. 42]:
"Not without sorrow have we seen that another error, and one not less ruinous [than the error of crass rationalism dealt with in the previous section of the allocution], has taken possession of certain portions of the Catholic world, and has entered into the souls of many Catholics who think that they can well hope for the eternal salvation of all those who have in NO WAY entered into the true Church of Christ. For that reason they are accustomed to inquire time and time again as to what is going to be the fate and condition after death of those who have never yielded themselves to the Catholic faith and, convinced by completely inadequate arguments (vanissimisque adductis rationibus), they await a response that will favor this evil teaching. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume to establish limits to the divine mercy, which is infinite. Far be it from Us to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsels and judgments of God, which are "a great deep," and which human thoughts can never penetrate. In accordance with Our apostolic duty, We wish to stir up your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to drive out of men's minds, to the extent to which you are able to use all your energies, that opinion, equally impious and deadly, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion (quavis in religione reperiri posse aeternae salutis viam) **[This is where the Church's exclusiveness causes problems for many]. With all the skill and learning at your command, you should prove to the people entrusted to your care that this dogma of the Catholic faith is in now way opposed to the divine mercy and justice.

Certainly we must hold it as of faith that no one can be saved outside the apostolic Roman Church, that this is the only Ark of salvation, and that the one who does not enter it is going to perish in the deluge. But nevertheless, we must likewise (***please note) hold it as certain that those who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if that [ignorance] be invincible, will NEVER BE CHARGED WITH ANY GUILT on this account before the eyes of the Lord. Now, who is there who would arrogate to himself the power to indicate the extent of such [invincible] ignorance according to the nature and the variety of peoples, regions, talents, and so many other things? For really when, loosed from these bodily bonds, we see God as He is, we shall certainly understand with what intimate and beautiful a connection the divine mercy and justice are joined together. But, while we live on earth, weighed down by this mortal body that darkens the mind, let us hold most firmly, from Catholic doctrine, that there is one God, one faith, one baptism. It is wrong to push our inquiries further than this.

For the rest, as the cause of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers to God that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ. And let us do all in our power to bring about the common salvation of men, for the hand of the Lord is not shortened and the gifts of heavenly grace will never be lacking to those who sincerely wish and pray to be comforted in this light. Truths of this kind must be deeply implanted in the minds of the faithful so that they may not be corrupted by the false doctrines that tend to encourage the religious indifference (doctrinis eo spectantibus, ut religionis foveant inddiferentiam) which we see being spread abroad and strengthened to the ruination of souls."

My response:
Ok, first of all, define 'invincibly ignorant'? What does that mean? Does that mean like the Amazonian tribal members in 600 ad who will never hear of Christ, much less see a white man in their lifetime? What about the person who lives and dies in Saudi Arabia, who will never know of Christianity other than what little their government or religion tells them about it? What about somebody who was extremely molested and brutalized by a priest and because of this, will never see the Catholic Church in a pure light? What about me, the person who cannot decide between the differing exclusive truth claims of the religions of the world and therefore, has found a common ground on which they all could be true (transcendent unity of religion) which makes more sense to me than the fact that only one of them is right and all the others are false?

Secondly, you state that 'it is clear that the Catholic Church is the sole means for salvation and if it was not then there has been no point for the Church's existence.' I have to totally disagree with you on both points. You obviously know that I don't think that the church is the sole means to salvation, although it is one path, probably one of the best out there if one strives for sainthood and christhood. It is because of this that I don't think that the church loses its meaning or purpose if a more pluralistic vision of salvation is correct. Just because other religions might be roads to salvation in no way takes anything away from the catholic Church. Just because I can get a Ph.D. from notre dame, doesn't make somebody else's Ph.D. from Michigan or Indiana obsolete and meaningless. They are just different schools, different roads, different paths to get the same degree. This does not mean that all religions are correct. I am NOT an inclusive pluralist, I AM a perennial philosophist. As long as the religion agrees with the core religion, it is a viable road to that pure religion. Satanism is not a viable road to that pure religion because it does not agree with the core religion, thus, it is not a path to salvation, but I believe Islam and Buddhism, if both are done correctly, is, so is Catholicism and Protestantism and non-denominational Christianity. I just don't understand the belief that just because the church loses it's exclusiveness or just because Jesus isn't divine or something like that that this somehow takes something away from Christianity. Does it take anything away from the church fathers, any of the saints, any of the 2 billion people in the world right now to whom Christ is a light and a mercy and to who they gain meaning and purpose from? I don’t' think it does.

I think if anything, it makes one more of a Christian by making Christians realize they are not so different from others and thus, they can love and be more accepting of the 'other.' also, it should show people that god has such a burning deep love and desire for humans that he will do whatever it takes in order to get them salvation, even if it means manifesting himself in various ways all across the world and giving them differing paths to choose from in order to come into his glory. Why wouldn't god, if he could, give people more than one option in order to attain unity with him if they didn't like the option he provided? I think that god loves us so much that he is actively trying to help us to unite with him and one of the ways he does this is by giving them 'seemingly' different paths to him. It’s like buying comics. We are the comics, god is the buyer. Does he just shop on ebay for his comics; does he just go to the comic book store? No, he shops on ebay, he goes to the comic book store, he goes to conventions, he trades with his friends, etc., etc., he uses all of these routes in order to attain his end goal, our salvation and eventual reunification with him. Why wouldn’t god do this, if he loves us as much as the religions tell us he does?

Jan’s response to my response:
Hi guys. Well, I have a couple of simple thoughts on this written piece. In the past, and through out my childhood, I heard the phrase that Alex quotes "Outside the church there is no salvation." What does that mean?

Are we sure that it's safe to assume that it's the Catholic church that's being referred to? Or is this a convenient assumption? And what is meant by salvation? There are often deeper esoteric meanings that are not usually included in these interpretations. What it seems like to me is that the words are taken simply and more literally, and the alternate possibilities are not included in the mix. It seems like people who are more 'fundamentalist' in their interpretations sometimes leap to convenient conclusions. But when you take the sentences apart and ask what this or that means, just like Jason did in his reply, you can end up with meanings that don't even include the Catholic Church, but may refer to something else.

The main problem with this Catholic perspective is that it suits the patriarchy by holding the Us versus Them in place. Don't you think it's a little odd that so many traditions think that they are the only ones going to 'heaven', even though there is plenty of evidence to support that 'God has many mansions' which are ready for us after judgement day, and that there are supposedly seven heavens. I can't really imagine a God that doesn't include everything and everyone. Everything has its purpose under heaven, is the way I remember Deuteronomy (and the popular song, of course)

I am suspect of religions that hold their particular viewpoint as the only correct one, and everyone who does not join that particular flock is doomed to hellfire and damnation. It doesn't seem logical to call God merciful and in the same breath almost, refer to this exclusivity. How can you say that if I don't believe the way a certain church believes (and they differ from one to the other, which makes this complicated, frustrating and impossible) that I will not be saved, or I will go to heaven, and then you turn around and say that God absolutely will not condemn anyone to Hell if they truly did not know better and were invincibly ignorant?

I think that this raises another argument, and then another and another. Instead, the truth should be simple and result in more clarity, not less, and unify rather than divide us. This is a good chat. Thanks for initiating it.

Alex’s response to Jan’s response:
Hello Jan. Thank you for your message. Let me share some more thoughts on this matter. The statement that "Outside the Catholic there is no salvation" is indeed referring to the Catholic Church which we believe was founded by Jesus Christ whose visible Head is the Bishop of Rome.

Now the problem lies with how this statement is to be taken. One view holds a rather strict interpretation in that they posit that all who are not actual members of the Church are ipso fact damned to hellfire. There are no ifs ands or buts. They see things absolutely black and white regarding this matter but the problem with this interpretation is that it is not the Catholic interpretation. Another view holds the exact opposite in that salvation (I will explain what that means shortly) can be had in any religion one professes. Now the Catholic interpretation lies right in the middle. As I want to reiterate God will not condemn anyone whom is not culpable! The Church often makes distinctions regarding theology. This is what needs to be done with the axiom of "Outside the Church..." That is why you cannot just quote some theological text or some Scripture passage without understanding everything around it.

You mention that: "It doesn't seem logical to call God merciful and in the same breath almost, refer to this exclusivity." and then you stated your perplexity that "God absolutely will not condemn anyone to Hell if they truly did not know better and were invincible ignorant." I don't understand why this is so perplexing for actually it shows that the Church is not as rigorist as you thought.

Perhaps it is time that I define what the term salvation means in Catholic terms. Ultimately the question of salvation regards the individual that dies with grace on their soul. The non-Catholic who may be saved through invincible ignorance, and who has TRULY striven to seek God and to do the will of God, dies with sanctifying grace on their soul. Once again though their salvation somehow unites them with the Catholic Church. Salvation is not a thing that you acquire one time here on earth where you make an act of faith in Jesus Christ and you are automatically saved [anti-Protestant position]. No, the salvation of a soul depends on their cooperation with the actual graces (graces that God gives to help the individual avoid evil and do good which is distinguished from sanctifying grace which refers to the indwelling of the Holy Trinity in the soul of the just) and their final perseverance. Even in the Bible it mentions how one must work out their salvation with "fear and trembling". This is what salvation is. Here is a more academic definition of salvation:

"The freeing of the soul from the bonds of sin and its consequences and the attainment of the everlasting vision of God in Heaven, not merely by way of reward but as the achievement of man's proper end. [Quite simply this is the meaning of life to "attain the everlasting vision of God in Heaven"] Salvation, though ultimately depending solely upon the love and mercy of God, is open to all by co-operation with divine grace according to the individual's knowledge and powers. The ordinary road to salvation is through visible membership of the Church; but "God gives light, sufficient for its salvation, to every soul that attains to the use of reason in this life" (Catholic Dictionary, edited by Donald Attwater)

As for the axiom that "Outside the Church there is no salvation" there is no esoteric meaning to it. One mustn't interpret it so rigidly as some Catholics do but it clearly refers to this one visible society instituted by Christ, i.e. the Catholic Church. This is what the Church Fathers and all the saints and doctors of the Church have always understood (umm.... and it was not just men who believed so)

Please do forgive my ignorance but what exactly do you mean by the "patriarchy"? I have heard you mention it several times before (did you not write a research paper or the like on that very topic?). I don't quite understand how you say "it suits the patriarchy by holding the Us versus Them in place". I would say this is an unfortunate position to hold regarding the position of the Church regarding salvation. I pose a question though...by holding that all religions are of equal value and God will save all no matter what their religion...isn't this also an "Us versus Them" position? For whoever does not believe in such a position is somehow outside of the truth of God.

You also mention after you pose the rhetorical question that so many traditions think that they are the only ones going to Heaven that "there is plenty of support that 'God has many mansion' which are ready for us after judgement day, and that there are supposedly seven heavens” How exactly does this prove that salvation can be had in any religion. It also seems odd that you would use the Christian Bible to prove such a point. What would you make of the statement in the Gospel of St. Mark 16:16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned"

And countless other passages from Our Lord specifying one way that He is to be followed.

My big problem with the "unity religion" or the belief that all religions should be put under one umbrella and that the differences are not really of importance but only the similarities is that it is not logical. I see this position as trying to find a simple solution reason behind the existence of all the various religions. "If there are so many religions then God must have approved of them all" I ask though is this so? Each religion contradicts one another in so many claims. This "unity religion" in my estimation does not result in more clarity for it goes against fundamental principles of logic "the law of non-contradiction" for a thing cannot be and not be at the same time. I believe God is a God of order not one of confusion. You are suspicious of any religion which holds to one particular viewpoint as the correct one but isn't the whole issue of the unity of all religions a "particular viewpoint" which claims to be the correct one as well? Don't you see the problem?

Look my job is not to point fingers and say this or that person is going to Heaven. Woe is me if I ever did that! Salvation is dependent on God and no one else. It is God who saves. However I ask just because someone cannot understand how the Catholic Church can claim to be the sole means of salvation that it somehow invalidates its claims. There have been many individuals; some have been saints, some just ordinary folk whose honest search for Truth led them to the Catholic Church. Why does the Church's sole claim to be the instrument of God's work in salvation become a stumbling block for so many?

To me the Church is a deep repository of riches waiting to be dug up. Sure we can keep talking about salvation which is obviously important at least to me. But in the process we can miss the many treasures that the Church gives. Simply read any life of a saint to see this. [Forgive this tangent but I want to say that the question of salvation is not the only thing the Church teaches]

Anyway this is still a very complex issue and I think just because it is not simple that it is somehow unworthy of contemplation. If we stopped short of complex issues how would we understand anything? Let alone theology. So before ending with a quote I would still repeat that no one would go to hell without serious guilt on their part.

"We all know that those who are afflicted with invincible ignorance with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law that have been written by God in the hearts of all men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can attain eternal life, by the power of divine light and grace. For God, who reads comprehensively in ever detail the minds and souls, the thoughts and habits of all men, will not permit, in accordance with his infinite goodness and mercy, anyone who is not guilty of voluntary fault to suffer eternal punishment." (Pius IX Quanto conficiamur moerore, 1863) [How would you claim that this last sentence is illogical...doesn't it show that the Church is not as obstinate as you claim?]